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1 JOHN GREACEN: One comment to Tom. At a

2 presentation on those computer generated animations or

3 re-enactments yesterday at another conference that's

4 going on here in Tucson, I was told that those used to

5 cost 500,000 to create. Now you can buy the software to

6 do them yourself for 10,000. So that is still -- 10,000

7 is still a good bit of money, but it's no longer a half

8 a mill. And if the law firm bought the package once --

9 and you would have to buy a staff person, as well -- but

10 that issue of the economic fairness in presenting the

11 evidence may go away over time.

12 The presentation that I'm going to give you

13 deals with court rules. And how court rules have

14 incorporated technology. It's based on some research I

15 did about nine months ago for a national conference on

16 court technology.

17 But this is what I'm going to cover briefly.

18 Why are rules important in this context? What subjects

19 have been covered by court rules? What do those rules

20 provide? What problems have arisen? How can we improve

21 the process? And what are the issues for the future?

22 Start with disclaimers. First, I'm a federal

23 court clerk, but I don't speak for the federal courts, I

24 speak only for me. I have some of my federal court

25 colleagues here and they will affirm that when I speak,




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1 John Greacen only speaks for himself.

2 The information is based on a survey of state

3 court administrators, not on my own research in WestLaw

4 to catch every possible use of the term technology or

5 electronic.

6 And it's based on published rules of procedure

7 and not internal sources of court authority like local

8 rules or a judge's ruling in a particular case.

9 This is what I found. That rule changes are

10 needed to allow courts to introduce new technologies;

11 that they will be needed even more in the future to

12 require the use of those technologies in standard ways;

13 that as far as far into this as we have gotten we have

14 gotten relatively few rules; and when adopted the rules

15 tend to have two pernicious qualities, they require

16 redundancy and we always require more in the way of

17 safeguards of a new technology than we did of the old

18 that it's replacing.

19 For instance, in redundancy, when most courts

20 allow you to file by FAX, they require you to send the

21 written document within 48 hours. Now, is that stupid

22 or is that stupid? It is not saving anything, it is

23 putting a double burden on the court. It is creating

24 potential evidentiary problems. Was it really filed if

25 it came by FAX and the paper came 49 hours later? If

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1 there was a change, which is the real document?

2 And of course, in the FAX technology, there

3 really is nothing different between those pieces of

4 paper, the one that came on the FAX and the original

5 sent later.

6 Unique safeguards. If we allow notice by

7 FAX -- or take a better one, electronic filing. We have

8 always assumed that a document mailed reaches its

9 destination. That's one of the most often wrong

10 assumptions in the law. But we live with it and it

11 works. And we know how to deal with the problems

12 created when a lawyer does not get served with a copy of

13 a pleading because it got lost in the mail.

14 But, when it comes to serving electronically,

15 we now require enormous precision in the new technology,

16 so that it could not possibly ever happen that something

17 sent electronically was not received in exactly the form

18 in which it was sent.

19 And a return receipt that it was so received

20 is returned to the sender.

21 We'll talk a little bit more about this. But

22 let's start off with why are rules important.

23 We live in an adversarial process in the court

24 system and the rules set the basic ground rules. And to

25 a great extent, they define the available methods. They

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1 limit the technologies that are used.

2 When the rules say you may file a paper, most

3 judges and court clerks will say: If it ain't a paper,

4 it can't be filed.

5 And the rules are the usual vehicle for

6 mandating new procedures.

7 These are the general subjects that I found

8 have been covered in state and federal rules. FAX

9 filing, FAX service, video arraignments, videotape

10 depositions, audio and videotaping to make the trial

11 record. The filing of an appellate transcript in

12 electronic form. Telephonic depositions. Telephonic

13 appearance in court and telephonic testimony.

14 Electronic filing. Electronic noticing. And electronic

15 collection of child support.

16 What you don't see here is any rules relating

17 to what this conference has really been about, which is

18 the use of technology to enhance the lawyer's

19 presentation of matters in evidence, or in argument

20 before the court.

21 Those have almost always been matters of the

22 trial judge's discretion. They have not been covered by

23 court rules, they're not covered by court rules today.

24 And I assume, from what I've heard here and elsewhere,

25 that there is not a big problem in getting the judge to

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1 let you use automation in the courtroom to enhance the

2 presentation.

3 There are problems with the admission of

4 evidence generated by computers. There are also lots of

5 problems of getting computers in the front door of the

6 courthouse, given the security rules. But if you can

7 talk the clerk or judge into issuing an order to allow

8 you to get past the guard at the front door, you don't

9 have much problem setting it up.

10 Am I wrong in that?

11 All right, let's go on talking further about

12 what rules there are.

13 Oh, here's a final one, electronic records for

14 archival purposes.

15 Many of the rules deal with FAXes. I'm not

16 going to talk much about them today. It's one of the

17 extraordinary things that you can order a pizza by FAX

18 but you can't send a document officially to another

19 lawyer by FAX.

20 Only 12 states allow FAX filing. The feds

21 don't allow FAX filing except in an emergency. In fact,

22 the feds prohibit a court from establishing a local rule

23 allowing FAXes routinely.

24 This is my favorite FAX rule that I found. I

25 like simplicity and elegance in a rule. This one never

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1 even uses the word FAX, but it was designed to allow the

2 court to accept documents that come in through a FAX.

3 Video depositions are now widely authorized in

4 rules. Some of them require court approval in advance,

5 others do not. These are the kinds of things that are

6 covered in these rules that the videotape operator will

7 administer the oath, that the operator will give some

8 certification of the videotape that the taker of a

9 videotape by -- of a deposition by videotape is

10 required to give a copy to the opposing party. That the

11 video deposition will be included as a videotape in the

12 record on appeal. Except in Kentucky, where for some

13 reason judges, appellate judges will watch videotape.

14 If you're going to use parts of a videotape deposition

15 elsewhere in this country, you have to make a transcript

16 of the videotape.

17 One interesting rule required the custodian of

18 the tape to edit it to strike testimony ruled

19 inadmissible during pretrial proceedings.

20 My favorite in terms of discouraging the use

21 of a technology is in New Mexico where a judge

22 authorizing a video deposition for a minor sexual

23 assault victim must be present at the taking of the

24 deposition.

25 Video arraignment rules have been in place now

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1 for a considerable period of time. Most states still

2 allow the local court to establish or allow it at the

3 trial judge's or the court's discretion. In some cases,

4 the defendant is required to waive the right to be

5 personally present in court in every instance; in other

6 states that's not required.

7 The type of proceedings which can be conducted

8 in this way vary widely. Most are limited to initial

9 appearance or arraignment. Some include a misdemeanor,

10 even felony sentencing after a guilty plea. Missouri

11 includes civil proceedings involving inmates other than

12 jury trials.

13 A couple of states require that the video link

14 be of commercial television quality, that really jacks

15 up the cost.

16 Many deal with the ability of the judge,

17 defendant and counsel to interact, including the ability

18 of defense counsel and the inmate to have confidential

19 communications outside of the hearing or observation of

20 the judge and counsel on the other side.

21 In New Hampshire, that communication must be

22 through an encrypted phone line. In other places there

23 is a requirement for a FAX machine capability for

24 defense counsel and inmate to communicate on paper

25 confidentially.

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1 And there are also a number of rules requiring

2 that these tapes be maintained for some period of time.

3 For audio and video taping of the trial

4 record, this is in lieu of a stenographic record, a

5 number of states now allow this. As I said before, only

6 Kentucky allows the videotape itself to be the record on

7 appeal. Most of them allow a local court to decide to

8 use it or not.

9 They require the creation of a duplicate tape,

10 a chain of custody requirement in the clerk's office

11 concerning the tape, require the judge or another court

12 official to maintain a log that would allow you to

13 quickly find places in the videotape.

14 They would require -- at least one state

15 requires a photograph to be videotaped so that it

16 becomes part of the videotape, rather than a separate

17 exhibit.

18 Most say that the tape, the videotape is the

19 official record, but the transcript must nonetheless be

20 prepared to assist the appellate court to review it.

21 The one state that I found that has a

22 requirement that the transcript be submitted in

23 electronic form, as well as paper form, says that the

24 reporter must provide the transcript to the parties in a

25 computer searchable disk and ASCII format and the party

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1 must a supply the transcript to the appellate court upon

2 request in that same electronic form. This is so that

3 appellate judges could search the transcript themselves

4 using some sort of a search protocol.

5 Arizona, Gordon here is in the lead in another

6 area, allowing depositions generally to be taken by

7 telephone, rather than in person, without specific court

8 approval.

9 The Arizona rule says that the location of the

10 deponent, that is the one being deposed, is the place of

11 taking the deposition for purposes of what court do you

12 go to if there's a question about the conduct of the

13 deposition.

14 There is an Arizona juvenile rule that allows

15 the judge to accept testimony over the phone, in the

16 judge's discretion, in dependency and parental rights

17 termination cases.

18 There's a rule in Michigan that allows

19 telephonic testimony with the consent of all parties and

20 court approval in a motion hearing, pretrial hearing or

21 a status conference.

22 Washington state allows arbitrators to conduct

23 mandatory arbitration by phone. And a Wyoming rule

24 allows testimony by electronic means in criminal cases.

25 It doesn't say any more than that. That, I assume,

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1 would allow a witness to testify by phone, although

2 you've got some confrontation questions there.

3 There are many courts that are conducting

4 conferences by telephone and allowing counsel or parties

5 to appear. I didn't find those in the rules. That's

6 just by local practice.

7 The electronic filing rules are pretty

8 complex. How many of you heard of the CLAD project in

9 Delaware?

10 I've got a maybe a third of the people. CLAD

11 is a partnership between Lexis and the Delaware courts

12 where parties in designated cases file all of their

13 pleadings in a special Lexis electronic file. They are

14 charged a fee for being involved in the case, they are

15 charged a fee for each filing, and they -- the file in

16 the case is the Lexis electronic file. Anybody who

17 wants to read anything in that file dials into Lexis,

18 has to have authority to be in that file but then can

19 read any document.

20 One interesting aspect of it is that the

21 filing process includes the creation of the docket. The

22 filer not only submits the document but sends a little

23 note with the document that contains the name and that

24 name, together with a sequential number for the document

25 and the date of filing, becomes the docket sheet. So

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1 anybody can scroll through the docket sheet and search

2 it, as well.

3 The federal courts have had a couple of

4 experiments with electronic filing. The one in

5 Philadelphia to me is laughable. A couple of firms are

6 doing this. But they submit to the court in advance

7 signature pages, just a piece of paper with the lawyer's

8 signature on it. Then the law firms sends a pleading

9 and the clerk prints out the pleading, reaches under the

10 counter and pulls out the signature page, staples it

11 together and files it. And that's electronic filing.

12 San Antonio's process is a bit more

13 sophisticated -- a lot more sophisticated. There's an

14 agreement between the law firm and the court about the

15 filing and the binding effect of anything sent

16 electronically.

17 In neither Philadelphia nor San Antonio has it

18 really taken off. There has not been much interest in

19 filing electronically.

20 In Utah, they're trying to use off-the-shelf

21 technology with what is called SGML and a public key

22 encryption technology to do filing. They're doing it

23 still on an experimental basis. It's a very interesting

24 experiment, and apparently it's working pretty smoothly.

25 Electronic rules dealing with archiving

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1 address two principal questions: That is, adequate

2 safeguards for the preservation and integrity of the

3 record and adequate public access. The key question

4 here is the future. What happens when the software and

5 the equipment on which an electronic record was created

6 is no longer existent or maintained or supported?

7 Yes, we have the electronic file, the data,

8 the raw data itself, but will we, in the future, be able

9 to read something that was produced on a -- one of those

10 old -- what was it, 8088s or when Macintosh is gone and

11 what will happen to all of those records that were --

12 WINTON WOODS: You mean like today, John?

13 JOHN GREACEN: No, there are those who love

14 Macintosh so devoutly that it will not be until this

15 generation at least is over that Macintosh will be gone.

16 WINTON WOODS: We have one in the room.

17 JOHN GREACEN: There are several more.

18 So, we have examples of progressive rules.

19 But overall, these are examples, but they're not

20 widespread. There are generally very few of these

21 rules. And they require, as I said, the maintenance of

22 redundant manual procedures and they often require more

23 safeguards than the old technology that they replaced.

24 Why is this? We've tended in the courts to

25 focus on the use of automation within the court family,

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1 automating the clerk's office. Most of these rules deal

2 with the relationship between the court and the outside

3 and the law firm and the relationship between law firm

4 and law firm. So that has -- is secondary to the courts

5 after our own automation.

6 The rules process itself is slow and

7 conservative. We all tend to think in terms of a paper

8 and a courtroom paradigm. The rules are all written

9 with the words and phrases and images of papers and

10 places.

11 We've been skeptical of new technologies. The

12 people who write rules are judges. Sometimes they'll

13 ask the lawyers' opinions, most times not. But the

14 judges are not the people who know most about technology

15 in today's world.

16 There are very few powerful advocates for

17 change. And in terms of this tendency to require more

18 of the new technology, the interesting thing is the new

19 technology actually makes those safeguards possible.

20 The question is whether to go to the lengths

21 that the technology will allow you to do. For instance,

22 in this public key encryption technology, allows us now

23 to be certain not only that a document came from a

24 specific person but that the document transmitted is

25 identical to the one received in every jot and tittle,

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1 every comma, space, every character in the document. We

2 could never do that in a paper technology, but we can in

3 the electronic. The question is: Should we require

4 that before we go to electronic filing?

5 Well, here are some suggestions. How can we

6 make this better? We can get the rule makers to be

7 aware of their biases against new technology. We can

8 get states to adopt permissive rules allowing the major

9 questions to be decided in the administrative arena,

10 rather than in the rule making arena.

11 This is what is happening in the federal

12 courts. Federal courts are passing a series of rules.

13 A court by local rule can allow electronic filing or can

14 accept -- can make the rules about what qualifies as a

15 signature, if those rules are consistent with policies

16 established by the Judicial Conference of the United

17 States. That moves those questions into the judicial

18 conference rather than the rule making process.

19 There are at least five states -- Arkansas,

20 California, Florida, Idaho, Indiana and Kansas -- that

21 have created technology advisory rules committees to

22 assist the courts in coming up with these kinds of

23 rules.

24 Here is an example of a permissive rule, like

25 the federal courts rules.

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1 Get the idea?

2 The permissive rules invite the use of new

3 technology at the local level, they remove detailed

4 procedures from the rule making process, and they use

5 the flexibility of the administrative process.

6 The weaknesses are that the rule making

7 process requiring a lot of public notice and opportunity

8 for comment are eliminated from the administrative

9 process and as a result, the administrative process,

10 unless it's thought through carefully, may be even more

11 isolated than the rule making process.

12 The advisory committees have a broad range of

13 composition. I think they're best if they have the

14 broadest range of composition, including particularly

15 people from the public sector who have been involved in

16 the use of these technologies in ways that the courts

17 tend to lag behind.

18 The functions of the committees are to bring

19 in diverse perspectives, to gather information, conduct

20 pilot projects, draft proposed rules, to provide

21 legitimacy to the proposals, and to become advocates

22 within the court process for the adoption of new

23 technologies.

24 Their strengths are diversity of use,

25 legitimacy, that they are advocates for change, and that

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1 it's a mechanism appropriate to this task.

2 The weaknesses are that many judges would see

3 this as removing or diluting their authority. Yes, they

4 ultimately have the right to adopt or reject a rule, but

5 they are put in a much more ticklish political posture

6 if a rule is served up to them that they don't want to

7 adopt. And there is a need to coordinate the rules

8 process with the technology aspect of things.

9 Here are the future issues that I see coming

10 down the pike, many of which we have already talked

11 about. We have the perennial lawyer-clerk problem, our

12 fixation on original signatures. I think this is not a

13 problem, it's just one that we create.

14 A huge issue in the next five to ten years is

15 the courts turning around from allowing people to use

16 technologies to requiring the use of those technologies,

17 and it ultimately comes down to the problem of redundant

18 processes in the court.

19 If we have -- first will allow electronic

20 filing and then we're going to get to the point where we

21 don't want to keep the paper anymore and we're going to

22 require people to file things electronically. We're

23 going to deal with new subject matters. We deal with

24 the issue of fees, and an increasing pressure for

25 public/private partnerships.

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1 Here are the different ways you can solve the

2 original signature problem. One, you can just get rid

3 of it. This is my favorite rule of all, from Ohio, that

4 any signature on an electronically transmitted pleading

5 or paper is by law considered that of the attorney or

6 party it purports to be for all purposes, just like it

7 is on the paper.

8 If it's established that the pleadings or

9 papers were transmitted without authority, the court

10 will order the filing stricken. This says in that one

11 hundredth of one percent of the instances where there

12 might be a problem, the judge will deal with it.

13 Another approach is to require the transmitter

14 to retain the signed original. So if there's ever a

15 question about the authenticity of the signature, you

16 would have a place to go.

17 Another is to require standing agreements, as

18 in the federal court process in San Antonio, that

19 defines the binding character of the electronically

20 submitted document.

21 We actually have the technology now to include

22 the signature as a graphic in a document. So you can

23 actually send your signature. It makes things more

24 complicated, because now you have to combine the word

25 processing and the graphic part of a document. It can

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1 be done.

2 You can use what is called an EDI protocol,

3 electronic data interchange protocol, like the banks use

4 to send billions of dollars around the world. If they

5 can send a billion dollars, why can't we send a motion

6 for extension of time?

7 Or you could use this public key encryption

8 technology that I just mentioned very briefly that

9 allows the ultimate in authentication of the sender and

10 the contents of the document.

11 Mandating use of new technologies. You

12 already see where that's going.

13 Here are the new subject matters that I see.

14 We've already had a discussion of technologically

15 sophisticated evidence in the sense of video

16 re-enactments. What happens when we want to introduce a

17 manufacturer's whole record keeping system as evidence

18 of the prices that the manufacturer charged over a

19 period of time? How do we do that?

20 Maryland has just put in a new rule that

21 creates a hearsay exception for electronically recorded

22 prior inconsistent statements.

23 Gordon has talked about the virtual courtroom

24 in terms of space and time. Another major problem that

25 we're running into is questions of public access to

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1 electronic databases.

2 In Washington state, the courts have taken a

3 very negative view. They have said you have a right to

4 access to paper, but that does not extend to electronic

5 information.

6 In Florida, they've taken exactly the opposite

7 view.

8 New Jersey is creating a committee to look

9 into this.

10 The federal courts have struggled with it, and

11 I think most of us want to try to put off the problem as

12 long as possible.

13 One of the problems is that data in an

14 electronic format, in a database format, can end up

15 being much more embarrassing to the court system than

16 data put in individual pieces of paper that is very hard

17 for somebody to put together.

18 For instance, time from filing to disposition

19 of cases is very easy to calculate if you've got the

20 database; it's very hard to calculate if have you to go

21 look up every piece of paper. And the problems of

22 archiving will only get worse as the pace of change in

23 technology gets faster.

24 Fees are problems in this way. There are some

25 courts that look at the introduction of a new technology

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1 as an opportunity to make money, and actually see it as

2 a way of generating revenue for a hard pressed system.

3 Is that what we want to do, to burden new technologies

4 with the additional burden of being a source of

5 supporting the court system?

6 Do we want to try to calculate what benefit a

7 new technology provides to the user and then try to

8 capture that benefit?

9 Do we want to try to get the -- a fee that

10 reimburses us for the cost of introducing that

11 particular technology, like a turnpike toll that

12 theoretically would go away once the turnpike is paid

13 for? Theoretically.

14 Or do we want to consider these new

15 technologies as part of the court's responsibility for

16 public service?

17 The public/private partnerships, I've already

18 explained one of them, the CLAD partnership, which for

19 me as a court administrator has some problems because

20 all of a sudden I wake up to find that my records don't

21 belong to me, they belong to Lexis and all of the

22 documents now reside in Meade's computer and not in the

23 courthouse at all.

24 But how are we going to get the capital

25 together and the expertise to make these major strides

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1 without involving the private sector?

2 Another example that's coming up is in courts

3 that refuse to accept FAXes directly into the court.

4 Many of them are now authorizing FAX filing through an

5 intermediary.

6 That is, if you're -- in the case of New

7 Mexico, if you live in Alamogordo, you can FAX a

8 document to the court's contract copy center, the copy

9 center will make a copy, as many copies as needed, of

10 that document, attach any filing fee and file it for

11 you. We don't consider that a FAX filing, that is an

12 ordinary filing.

13 In the federal system, we now have a contract

14 with a private vendor to do noticing in bankruptcy

15 cases. They will do it better, faster, cheaper than

16 individual clerk's offices are able to.

17 Ultimately, we may get to the point that we

18 have private vendors coming in and saying: We can run

19 the clerk's office a lot better than public employees,

20 cheaper, faster, better. Is that ultimately where this

21 thing is headed?

22 My final thoughts are, let's just do it.

23 Let's get more of these rules. Let's move into the --

24 not the new technologies, most of what we're talking

25 about here are, as Woody has pointed out in this new

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1 courtroom, technologies that are available easily on the

2 market.

3 Let's try to do it better than the rules that

4 I have told you about, and if possible, let's keep

5 things simple and elegant.

6 Thank you.

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